Plato republic book x homer

Plato s republic, book x despite the love and respect he has for homer, socrates resumes his talk concerning the prohibition of certain types of poetry, for no one is to be honored or valued more than the truth. Plato on censoring artists a summary stephen hicks, ph. Page 4 of the laws, in what manner plato would have treated this high argument. E translated by benjamin jowett book x socrates glaucon of the many excellences which i perceive in the order of our state, there is none which upon. Plato s pronouncements on the arts in book x have engaged a spirited scholarly debate that continues to the present day. Book x the final book of the republic begins with socrates return to an earlier theme, that of imitative poetry. In all cases, the reference to homer given here may cover a few more verses than actually quoted or alluded to in plato s text. Still, there is no doubt that platos fellows saw homer and his fellowpoets as a.

The last subject, and also the origin of retail trade, is treated with admirable lucidity in the second book of the republic. The excerpt below reflects a portion of the recollected dialogue between. Plato himself argues in book x that to be interesting and to give pleasure, poetry of necessity must imitate the soul easily vexed republic, x, p52, so plato s condemnation of homer comes as no surprise. The delineation of socrates in the republic is not wholly consistent. Socrates says that homer and simonides both dish up definitions of justice in which you steal to help out your friends. As to a didactic end in poetry, this too plato addresses. In the first book we have more of the real socrates, such as he is depicted in the memorabilia of xenophon, in the earliest dialogues of plato. Check out our revolutionary sidebyside summary and analysis. In the light of the sheer scope, depth, and range of complexity of the republic, of its pivotal role in plato s corpus, and of its still living interpretive reception, i will focus on a single but clearly central issue in the dialogue, that of mimesis, emphasizing its treatment in book x, and referring also to a key passage in book vi.

Gomperz, ignoring this passage and interpreting the republic wholly from 367 e, strangely argues that phaedo 107 c proves that the phaedo must have been composed at a time when plato was less sure of the coincidence of justice and happiness. Republic, and that the homeric epics can be read as containing the same notion of justice, i conclude that plato s presentation of justice initially in book iv is essentially a borrowed concept from homer. Plato agrees that homer is indeed the educator of greece, and immediately adds that homer is the most poetic and first of the tragic poets. Ion may justly be thought of as one of the praisers of homer referred to in republic x see above, and ion 542b4. One of the greatest ironies of plato s republic is that, although he condemns the poets and exiles them from his idyllic city, the republic is perhaps one of the greatest literary works of all time, and a poem in its own right. And some of the critiques that are offered in book x are. I have loved homer ever since i was a boy, and even now he appears to me to be. In book two, socrates, thrasymachus and adeimantus decide to focus on a. Poets, like hesiod and homer, tell inappropriate stories about gods committing impious actions. A religious thinker may in his theodicy justify the ways of god to man by arguing that worldly happiness. Book x of platos republic is by far the most direct attack on poetry that we see as well as other forms of artistic representation, a term that we will be returning to in short order.

In book x of the republic, painting is the paradigm plato uses to explain the meaning, and the menace, of poetic mimesis. Plato is critical of greek literature and mythology and even went so far as to propose a system of censorship in the ideal city. I have to write an essay on how the siren scene from the odyssey resembles or contradicts book x of plato s republic but im honestly lost. If homer had known how to educate, he would have had many followers and companions who loved and honored him. Res publica was written in 380 bc and this version was translated by benjamin jowett in 1871. Both plato the republic book x and homer s the odyssey are similar in their argument that humans need the rational mind alone to achieve an objective, and that the.

It is important to note that this selection ends his book, and. The republic, book i one of plato s greatest and most influential works. In order to fully understand plato s methods and motives in book x, you will first need to understand his project, as outlined in this post. Poetry is a threat to the ideal state he is planning to erect. Culture, art and poetry in the republic the core curriculum. Platos pronouncements on the arts in book x have engaged a spirited scholarly. By far the most controversial discussion on the topic of poetry in all of platos dialogues is socrates critique of imitative poetry in book 10 of the republic. Plato believed myths to be lies and thus the propagation of these lies should be halted in society. Perhaps we may allow some hymns to the gods and some poems in praise of famous good men, but the most of poetry and drama, including homer, must be banned from the state. Book x of the republic is plato s most aggressive attack on poetry.

While he does counter some of homer s claims in book ii, it can very easily be said that plato is not concerned with homer except as far as he represents the larger genre of poetry. In books iii and x of the republic, plato addresses the problem of poets. He deduces that they are imitators of the world, and therefore far from the truth. The philosophy of plato an wellorganized overview from the radical academy. The republic study guide contains a biography of plato, literature essays, a complete etext, quiz questions, major themes, characters, and a. Plato on rhetoric and poetry stanford encyclopedia of philosophy.

It is a fiction book in the format of a discussion between socrates and others. In the republic, plato makes a systematic case for censoring all arts. A poet, such as homer, might present the courage of achilles, but. In the successive books of vix, plato builds a philosophical foundation on which to show the superiority of justice to injustice.

He reiterates that while he is still content with having banished poetry from their state, he wishes to explain his reasons more thoroughly. So a craftsman has the idea of a table, he constructs it, this table is now not quite the table heperceived, but an instance. Neither in the republic, nor in any other dialogue of plato, is a single character repeated. But injustice and other vices obviously do not destroy the soul or tyrants and other such people would not be able to survive for long. The final book of the republic begins with socrates return to an earlier theme, that of imitative poetry. I recommend to anyone who has little experience of philosophy or plato s writing not to skip this section. Yes, that homer, the epic poet who wrote the iliad and the odyssey. Plato s attack on poetry is most visible in books iii and x of the republic, and is two pronged. This book is available in english under the title aristotle and the theology of the living immortals, trans.

His example is a painted couch, and the point he emphasises is that the picture shows only how the couch appears when viewed from a particular angle. Mimesis in platos republic and its interpretation by. Our story begins as socrates and his friend glaucon head home from a festival. The parts of the soul, their pleasures, and desires plato, republic book 9 a course in ethics duration.

The zeus of homer and hesiod easily passed into the royal mind of plato philebus. Socrates then outlines a brief proof for the immortality of the soul. Plato s criticism of poetry as a genre is clear in the republic, though, to say that plato is aiming his attacks directly at homer is not immediately apparent. Socrates is attempting to undermine what one might call a tragic world view note that in book x, he characterizes homer as the leader of tragedy. Platos attitude to poetry and the fine arts, and the origins of aesthetics. The republic full text introduction and analysis book x owl eyes.

Plato is setting himself against what he takes to be the entire outlookin contemporary but not platos parlance. A careful look at book x shows that plato s argument against mimesis has a clear structure. Plato on censoring artists a summary january 21, 2012. Robin waterfield, editor of the oxford worlds classics edition of plato s republic, tells us why we should bother reading it. But plato never combined his economic ideas into a system, and never seems to have recognized that trade is one of the great motive powers of the state and of the world.

The republic book x summary and analysis gradesaver. Plato sees each step removed from the idea of a thing, a degradation of that idea. Plato and platonism a concise introductory essay from the catholic encyclopedia. I will tell you, although i have always from my earliest youth had an awe and love of homer, which even now makes the words falter on my lips. This is a markedup version of the jowett translation. These illuminate the reader as to what to expect and give great insight into the concepts of the republic as a whole. The task of the platonic philosopher is to take up the ancient quarrel between. Perfect for acing essays, tests, and quizzes, as well as for writing lesson plans. The great poet, socrates laments, would have helped his country more truly had he taken a political role. Learn exactly what happened in this chapter, scene, or section of the republic and what it means.

Midterm monroe study guide plato s republic book 46 33 terms. Ready to call it a night, theyre intercepted by a whole gang of their acquaintances, who eventually convince them to come hang out at polemarchuss house and have a nice, long chat. For a summary comparison between homer s view of the gods and plato s view, see homer s gods, plato s gods a chart. What sets it apart from the works of poets like homer is that plato makes every. It aims to debate and conclusively determine the meaning of justice. Does it make any sense, for plato, that only odysseus hears the sirens song. The internet classics archive the republic by plato. In the tenth book of the republic he says that, whereas the artificer in making any material object imitates the eternal idea, an artist only imitates the imitation 595 a598 d. Plato is concerned with poetry because of the effect he fears it will have on the population of his ideal society.

Book x of platos republic in relation to the sirens in. Homerhomers iliad would have been severely criticized by socrates, as depicted by plato in the republic. We can only guess why the great design was abandoned. The tenth book of the republic of plato falls into two divisions. Book x socrates glaucon of he many excellences which i perceive in the order of our state, there is none which upon reflection pleases me better than the rule about poetry. It is known as a socratic dialogue and is perhaps one of plato s best known works. A second array following the first one displays quotations of homer by plato in the order of homer s works the iliad coming first and the odyssey coming last. Criticism of homers the iliad by socrates as depicted. Platos attitude to poetry and the fine arts, and the. Poets were respected, examples are homer, hesiod, simonides, aeschylus, sophocles, and euripides, and they were reguarded as major thinkers and serious contenders for wisdom.

Plato on rhetoric and poetry stanford encyclopedia of. The praisers of homer treat him as the font of wisdom. We have agreed, then, that the tales we teach the young will teach them to honor the gods. I must speak out, i said, though a certain love and reverence for homer that has. What leads you to conclude the the story of the sirens does, or does not, agree with plato. For instance, plato is an idealist, who places a premium on the mind, whereas aristotle, largely in reaction to his teacher. Comparing plato the republicbook x andthe odyssey 78. Again and again, he shows how mimesis works in painting, and then, on the assumption that dramatic poetry too is mimetic, he shows how mimesis functions in it. Homers depiction of the trojan war and of odysseus return home has inspired many generations. Once you are familiar with the effects that he ascribes to poetry, the brunt of book x will represent the logical progression of plato s thinking throughout his larger work, the republic. The republic by plato, part of the internet classics archive.

Of the greek authors who at the renaissance brought a new life into the world plato has had the greatest influence. Plato, through socrates, loves talking about and criticizing, so head on over to our homer guides if you start getting lost. What is bad for the soul is injustice and other vices. The republic of plato is also the first treatise upon education, of which the writings of milton and locke, rousseau, jean paul, and goethe are the legitimate descendants. Plato offers an almost psychoanalytical explanation of the timocrat as one who saw his father humiliated by his mother and wants to vindicate manliness. The republic book x great books of the western world.

This edition has a really helpful introduction section which goes through each of the books that make up plato s republic. Plato s pronouncements on the arts in book x have engaged a spirited scholarly debate. In books viix stand platos criticism of the forms of government. Although written in prose, it is riddled with intricate symbolism and poetic elements. It begins with the dismissal of timocracy, a sort of authoritarian regime, not unlike a military dictatorship.